ht FireDogLake

Wow, Mephistopheles is not his name–though you’d be hard pressed to convince the tongue-wagging, holy-rolling element of the GOP of this.

In as near plain language as a politician can muster, President Barack Obama says that he believes waterboarding is torture when asked the question on whether or not the previous administration sanctioned torture.

Obama took his assertion a step further with a moral upper cut to the Bush League jaw bone.

We could have gotten this information in other ways, in ways that were consistent with our values, in ways that were consistent with who we are.”

What!!!!  We can’t torture even if it’s so, so scary????

Tell ’em O’Baby:

We are willing to hold true to our ideals even when it’s hard, not just when it’s easy.”

Is this straight out of Yoda’s Jedi Training Manual?  Or what.

I believe that waterboarding is torture, and whatever legal rationales were used…it was a mistake.”

For those not schooled in the science of argument, the inference is:  Yes, the Bush Administration sanctioned torture.


7 thoughts on “Faustian Torture Bargain Broken

  1. Pingback: Faustian Torture Bargain Broken Video

  2. Wonder why “inference” is needed? Wonder why he had to be prodded to answer the original question that he avoided in his original answer.

    Tell you what. When he says that we need to investigate these war crimes instead of his “inference” and babbling bullshit, he is nothing but a two faced shift changer looking for political expediency.


    Torture is illegal. Period. And I was embarrassed to watch him avoid the question and was forced to readdress it after his babble.

    • I feel your indignation, B-baby. I mulled my reaction over and concluded that this is a small, tedious step in the right direction on his end.

      As for us, think of Socrates in the Apology, “if I may use such a ludicrous figure of speech, I am a sort of gadfly, given to the state by the Gods; and the state is like a great and noble steed who is tardy in his motions owing to his very size, and requires to be stirred into life. I am that gadfly which God has given the state and all day long and in all places am always fastening upon you, arousing and persuading and reproaching you.”

      The gadflies must keep biting. Set the teeth. 😉

      • Nicely done.

        Glad you sent me the song, for I forgot to ask for email updates to responses to my “droppings”. I am not sure how to take the words of the song (as a cut?). But I know you well enough to believe that there is more to it than that.

        Maybe I am a gadfly, or even less bothersome (at least I feel that way), like a male mosquito. Looks viscious, but only eats nectar.

        I can’t help but point out the obviousness of his shortfalls (and what some call lies). When he said, in this clip, that Bush made policy “mistakes” and bad “techniques” and REFUSED to call Torture Torture and to say that people should be held accountable, then it seems quite obvious that he is protecting something.

        What is he protecting? Bush? Or the policies? Or the complicit ones in his party that went along?

        He should come out and say it. What is he hiding or who is he protecting?

        • No cuts ever. 🙂 except to myself maybe.

          It’s a court’s job ultimately to say “guilty” or “not guilty.” I think that’s the subtext.

        • BeulahMan, I am likely as far to the left as you are, but we live in a world where the politics of rhetoric is extraordinarily important. I doubt that there was much question of Obama’s (implied) meaning in the minds of anyone who heard the answer. (Come on, admit it, you know his answer too.) I think the journalist asking the question was looking for a good sound bite, a sensational one. These sorts of things are precisely the sort of distractions that the right wants. Imagine what Faux would have done with such a snippet!

          Secondly, whether or not torture was (illegally) sanctioned is not for Obama to say. That’s why we have a DoJ. For me, it is enough for Obama to state unequivocally that waterboarding and other methods of “enhanced interrogation” are wrong and will be discontinued. I also thought the comparison to Churchill was brilliant.

          Look, amigo, historically there have been precious few “gadflies” that even approached the brilliance that was Socrates. (Martin Luther King, Ghandi, and a few others) And the size of the world’s population make filling that role singlehandedly even tougher. Even during Viet Nam, gadflies existed en masse.

          Keep on stinging. Hold your left fist high. I am with you in spirit (and, sometimes practice), but I respect the president’s pragmatism and ability to deftly sidestep distractions from his real job.

  3. Ahh,

    But the courts HAVE said, unequivocally, over and over and over in history that water boarding is torture. No ifs, ands or buts about it. For hundreds of years this is know as torture and especially in the last 50 or so.

    There is NO question. There is no reason for inference, except protecting something or someone from something. What other reason could he have? Maybe political expediency, but excuse me, that is bullshit, as well.

    I am sick of the rhetoric when true “straight talk” is needed (to borrow a lied up phrase from another lying Pol).

    Listen to anything that Jonathon Turley says (among other Constitutional scholars) and see if their thoughts are not precisely what mine are.

    Is Turley a Gadfly?

    And I don’t consider myself to be solely on the left. This has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the “left/right” paradigm and I refuse to allow you to paint me that way. I am simply looking at the law and what we have actually put others to death for (or in the Texas sherrif’s case during Reagan’s day where he was prosecuted for crimes when water boarding people).

    There is no defense and no rationale is acceptable in covering the crimes or not calling them what they are (war crimes).

    As with all things Obama, he is and has lied repeatedly to get elected and fool true progressives into believing his lies and innuendo. He continues it even on his 101st day.

    Did you hear Condi’s statement on Young Turks, where she admits orders came down from on high. They are admitting to torturing people and the current president is too politically motivated to NOT say it?

    WTF does that say about him?

    I hate that my words don’t sit well with people on the left, but I call em as they are, not as I hope or wish they were. How can I see a man him haw around answering a straight forward question and not think of him the same way as the others who do the same shit?

    As for the POTUS’s “real job”, that would include honoring his commitments to change. Well, by God, I am still waiting for it.

    Have you found it and I missed it?

    Here is the deal: If I were to water board someone, would there be any defense or quietness towards me? Who would him haw around what I did? Only when it is politically expedient would Obama (or any Pol) do it. But if it were me, I would be put under the jail and you know it (and there would be no end of the discussion or shift changing the reality of it). That only happens with the politically elite.

    Look how pained Obama was to answer and the words he chose. Instead of an answer, he said, “This is what I said before and I’ll say it again…” blah, blah, blah (no answer, just bullshit). And then he was asked again, pointedly.

    The question was quite clear and succinct and there is ample precedence in law to easily answer such a question (he IS a constitutional scholar, correct?)

    Not any more. he is now an owned man. Personally, I want something different.

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